Your thoughts on prayer

Thanks for that, Wolf.

Poor old John Peel. 

I'm back for an bit....the article I mentioned prior can be found in the Kindred Spirit Magazine, Winter issue (DEC-FEb) 1995-6, ..the article is called Electro-crystal therapy...and it comes by way of an Harry Oldfied, whom runs The School of Elecrocrystal Therapy at 177 Long Drive, South Ruislip, Miidlesex HA4OHL .....I have no idea if the school exists yet or not, but go to the library near you and read this article Page 22.24. has color aura pictures with the article.  

John, please explain what you mean when you say 'scientific investigation constantly undermines religious belief'.

A few pages back I quoted a few words 'He is hanging the earth upon nothing'

Isaiah 40 v 22 says: He dwells enthroned above the circle/sphere/globe (different translations) of the earth.

Until about 3 or 4 hundred years ago, as you know, we thought the earth was flat and we might fall off the edge.

Now, how did these writers, three thousand years ago know the truth.

Richard Dawkins does not hide his contempt for believers of God. That is why I gave him a miss. He should try a bit of humility.

• The Earth is at the center of the Universe.
• The Earth is the only object of its kind in the Universe,
• The Sun is at the center of the Universe.
• The Milky Way is the only galaxy in the Universe.
• The Milky Way is at the center of the Universe.
• Our Sun is the only star with planets.
• Our Sun and planets have been in the universe since very near its beginning.
• The velocity of the Earth in space constitutes an absolute frame of reference for the rest of the Universe.
• Humans are different from other animals in that we were specially created by the Creator in His own image.
• Humans have special immunity from the laws of nature.
• Humans are different in kind from other animals:

Oh John, I am not referring to things that have been naturally proved down the ages.

I should have made myself clearer: How does scientific investigation undermine the bible.

Now, please would you answer the questions I have asked in my last post. How did those writers three thousand years ago know the truth.

Hi John:  Hope the arm is healing nicely.

I disagree with you that the quote is irrational, but rather than going into a big long discussion about it, let's just agree to disagree on this one, OK?

Here's a quote that seems to sum up my take on what you and Sue have been discussing.  It's from Blaise Pascal.

"Reason's last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things that go beyond it."

I put up this quote because you said, "One of the many problems with simply saying God did it! is that such a view kills thought and prevents further inquiry. If you're convinced you know all the answers (because God is The Answer), you stop looking, stop wondering and stop growing."  I don't believe that developing spiritually by allowing the possiblilty of God and exploring that a little is to stop growing.  It's another dimension of the human being, but if you don't believe that there is anything spiritual going on in "life," then it will never make sense to you.  Another of Pascal's is "the heart has its reasons, which reason knows not."  This is of course, a dangerous quote, when you think of what horrors we humans are capable of.  But that's where Christ's message of love has to be the overarching principle of what we "think" with our logical minds and what we "feel" in our hearts.  You've already stated that you don't believe that people have spirits or souls, so I think we probably need to take this in another direction.  As I said before, I have no problem with the science, the research and the wonder of atoms and molecules coming together to become "life", but I think that God is the initiator of it all.

"I certainly don't call you crazy, Ruth, and I am open to the possibility that there is a creator - but as I said above, I think the possibility is vanishingly small."

I'm not sure what you mean by vanishingly small, but maybe that's where you need to start, with even that small possiblility, John.  In the vastness of the universe, a vanishingly small possibility might be very large indeed.

OK, John, here's an observation about remote possibilities.  I looked at your You Tube page the other day and saw the latest video you put up of the duet with you and your brother - "Saturday Night."  It's really lovely, by the way.

Do you remember a few pages back when I jokingly remarked to Diana that I had heard of the Holy Spirit referred to as the duct tape of the universe?  I know this may sound very simple minded on my part, but what do you suppose the odds are that I would mention "duct tape" in this thread and then, on the You Tube page of the Saturday Night video - the right hand panel that shows related videos - there would be a video called "Dave Sherman Sings The Duct Tape Blues in Athens, Texas?"  LOL.  I think the Holy Spirit must be lurking around here somewhere, John!  And so I guess as long as "Athens" is mentioned, maybe you should read Acts of the Apostles 17:16-34, where St. Paul tried to explain "the unknown god" to the Athenians, who were always testing theories and philosophizing about the newest ideas.  Maybe that might shed a bit more light on whatever you're trying to understand than my puny brain can.

John, this is a very good illustration of the church's "evolution" if you will, of its understanding of God and creation.  Don't get stuck in the 16th century if you want to know what Christianity is about today, John.

And yes, Sue, I agree that 9 and 11 are, as you say over there in Old Blighty, spot on!