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What is an Englishman?

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TheHermit
TheHermit
Posts: 15
Joined: 6th Jan 2010
Location: UK
quotePosted at 15:26 on 28th February 2010

Well the Welsh were able to identify the English at Agincourt, otherwise they would have loosed arrows at the wrong people.

Interesting reply lancs. A bit like Cleopatra calling herself Egyptian when she wasn't. I'll throw in the hypothesis that the English were the Angles, the last King of whom was believed to have had something in the eye in 1066.



Edited by: TheHermit at:28th February 2010 15:31
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Ron Brind
Ron Brind
Posts: 19044
Joined: 26th Oct 2003
Location: England
quotePosted at 15:34 on 28th February 2010
On 28th February 2010 14:16, Peter Evans wrote:
I have no idea what an Englishman is. I am Welsh.
That's it exactly Peter, an English Welshman! Lol
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cathyml
cathyml
Posts: 23275
Joined: 25th Jan 2010
Location: South Africa
quotePosted at 17:32 on 28th February 2010
The adjunct to an English woman!
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lancashirelove
lancashirelove
Posts: 1987
Joined: 18th Feb 2009
Location: UK
quotePosted at 21:26 on 28th February 2010
On 28th February 2010 17:32, cathyml wrote:
The adjunct to an English woman!

Lol  Smile
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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
Posts: 2605
Joined: 21st Nov 2004
Location: UK
quotePosted at 23:20 on 28th February 2010
On 28th February 2010 14:41, lancashirelove wrote:

My ancestors were are mentioned in the bonfire plot (though not directly involed) and some of my relatives from Brynn in Lancashire traveled with the Pilgrim Fathers were they owned lands in Maryland (marybeing named after Mary Queen of Scots). If you research Maryland you will find that that was the cradle and birthplace of modern America and the Catholic faith there.


I think you'll find Michael, that Maryland was named after Henrietta Maria of France who became the Catholic wife of Charles 1st, and was mum of Charles II and James II.  Charles 1st had decided to name the area in honour of his wife. It's largest city, Baltimore, was named after Lord Baltimore.
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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 03:20 on 1st March 2010

Stephanie, I love your description!  lol And yes, you're right, the US is as multicultural as it gets.  

My guess, re:  What is and Englishman? is anybody born in England (Englishwoman if you're female).  Just like anybody born in the US is an American.  If you're an expat, born in England, but now living in and/or a citizen of another country, it's probably your choice as to what you now consider yourself.  

When I was a youngster in Pennsylvania, I lived in an area heavily populated by immigrants and second or third generation Americans.  People would ask, "What's your nationality?"  Of course, to us kids born in the US, our nationality was American, but we were still close enough to the generations that came from the old country that we'd say Irish or Polish or Italian or Lebanese or whatever.  People whose ancestors had been in America for centuries who were white, were usually Protestants, often referred to by the derogatory term, WASPs.  (White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants).

Michael, I love your family history.  One of the things that was very emotional for me on our trips over there was contemplating what the lives of my ancestors was like.  When I touched the stones of some abbey or cathedral, I'd wonder if any of my great, great, great, great, etc. grandparents had a hand in building them.  If you are an American and not an American Indian, then your ancestors came from Europe, Africa or Asia.

 

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lancashirelove
lancashirelove
Posts: 1987
Joined: 18th Feb 2009
Location: UK
quotePosted at 14:37 on 1st March 2010

one of my ancesters -

DR. THOMAS3 GERARD  (JOHN2, THOMAS1) was born December 10, 1608 in New Hall,Lancashire,England, and died Bef. December 1673 in Westmoreland,Virginia.

 He married (1) ROSE TUCKER.  She was born Abt. 1610.  He married (2) SUSANNAH SNOWE September 21, 1629 in England, daughter of JOHN SNOWE and UNKNOWN.  She was born Abt. 1610, and died 1666 in St. Clement's, Maryland.
 
Notes for DR. THOMAS GERARD:
BORN: in 1608 at New Hall, Lancashire, England; oldest son.
 
IMMIGRATED: in 1638 as a free adult; returned to England in 1640, but resettled in the colony with his family soon thereafter. RESIDED: on St. Clement's Manor, St. Mary's County; moved to Virginia, 1664.
 
FAMILY BACKGROUND. FATHER: John Gerard, of New Hall, England, son of Thomas Gerard and wife Jane, of Garswood, England.
MOTHER: Isabell.
BROTHERS: Marmaduke; William; Francis; and Richard.
 
MARRIED: 1st, Susannah, dau. of John Snowe, Brookehouse, Chedulton, England. Her brothers were Abel; Justian; and Marmaduke.
MARRIED: 2nd, Rose Tucker.
SONS: Thomas (?-1686), a justice of St. Mary's County from 1676 to 1679, who married Ann (?-1702/3).
DAUGHTERS: Susannah, Frances.
 
PRIVATE CAREER. EDUCATION: literate; probably well educated.
RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION: Catholic, but his wife and children were Protestants.
 
SOCIAL STATUS AND ACTIVITIES: Gent. with high status on arrival in the colony; brought five servants with him, and by 1648 he had imported over forty servants; became manor lord of St. Clement's in 1639; sold his English holdings and brought his family to Maryland in 1650; involved in a celebrated legal action against his brothers-in-law over control of extensive lands in Maryland.
 
OCCUPATIONAL PROFILE: physician; planter.
 
PUBLIC CAREER. LEGISLATIVE SERVICE: Assembly, St. Mary's County, 1638/39, special writ 1641, special writ 1641/42, special writ 1642A; Upper House, 1658, 1659/60.
 
OTHER PROVINCIAL OFFICES: Council, 1643-1649, 1651-1660 (suspended from October 1658 to October 1659 for maligning other councilors);
Justice, Provincial Court, 1643-1649, 1650/51-1660. LOCAL OFFICE: conservator of the peace, St. Clement's Hundred, St. Mary's County, 1639/40.
 
STANDS ON PUBLIC/PRIVATE ISSUES: a very controversial figure in provincial politics and frequently at odds with the propretor's spokesmen, Gerard supported Fendall's Rebellion in 1659/60, for which he was permanently barred from voting or holding office in the colony.
 
WEALTH DURING LIFETIME. PERSONAL PROPERTY: valued at L299.11.3 in 1664.
LAND AT FIRST ELECTION: 1,030 acres in 1639; 11,000 acres by 1642; 14,000 acres by 1651, plus 3,500 acres in Virginia.
WEALTH AT DEATH. DIED: by October 19, 1673. LAND: ca. 16,000 acres.
 
Source: William and Mary College Quarterly - Washington and his Neighbors.
 
The Gerrard Family. - Among the neighbors of the Washington's, none were more conspicuous than Dr. Thomas Gerrard. His first wife, Susanna, was the daughter of Justinian Snow, one of the founders of Maryland and Lord Baltimore's factor in the Indian trade. Abel Snow, a clerk in the chancery office, London, and Marmaduke Snow were two other brothers. Dr. Gerrard was for a long time councillor, but was finally banished from Maryland for taking part in the resurrection of Josiah Fendall in 1659. Before this he had provided a refuge in Virginia, having obtained on October 18, 1650, a patent for land, and naming among the headrights his wife Susanna Gerrard, and his children Susanna, Temperance, Frances, Justinian, and John Gerrard. The same day Walter Brodhurst patented land next to William Hardwick, on the west side of "Poor Jack" Creek. As Walter Brodhurst had a son Gerrard, it raises the suspicion that his wife, Anna, who afterwards married Col. Washington, was perhaps a daughter of Col. Thomas Gerrard, as well as Washington's third wife Frances.
 
Dr. Gerrard's wife, Susannah, died before 1672-'73, whereupon he married Rose, the widow of John Tucker, whose children were John, Gerrard, Sarah and Rose, to which children Gerrard (then married to his second wife) made a gift. Dr. Garrard had five daughters and three sons:  etc., etc

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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 04:40 on 3rd March 2010

Wow, that's too cool, Michael.  My husband's mother has a family history  that traces her earliest ancestor, William Bunnell, emigrating from England, also in 1638.  Maybe he was on the same ship as Thomas.

So did some of Dr. Gerrard's progeny move back to England then, and settle in Lancashire?

 

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lancashirelove
lancashirelove
Posts: 1987
Joined: 18th Feb 2009
Location: UK
quotePosted at 08:15 on 3rd March 2010
Not sure Ruth, But Dr Gerrard was born and brought up in the Bryn area of Lancashire (between Manchester andLiverpool). He was one of the Gerrards of Bryn and Kingsley. lots of info on the web.
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Richard Oliver
Richard Oliver
Posts: 8
Joined: 28th Feb 2010
Location: UK
quotePosted at 23:54 on 6th March 2010
even my english car is designed by a greek?Is there such a thing as true english?
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