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Pamela Barnes Posts: 20 Joined: 21st Mar 2009 Location: UK | quotePosted at 21:28 on 21st March 2009 my great great great grand father william birken b1817, was born in west hallam, derbyshire, he married phoebe toplis b1813 also from west hallam, one of their sons, joseph birkin b 1848 in ilkeston, derbyshire, ( he married harriet hawley b1852 ) kept the grocers shop in mapperley village after 1881, before that, he was a coal miner, he died 24 november 1917, has anybody heard of him and the shop and are there any decendants still living in mapperley ?, i would love to hear from anyone who does remember, pam. |
Sue H Posts: 8172 Joined: 29th Jun 2007 Location: USA | quotePosted at 21:38 on 21st March 2009 Good luck in your search Pam. We have a few members from 'up north' who may be able to help. |
Ron Brind Posts: 19041 Joined: 26th Oct 2003 Location: England | quotePosted at 22:05 on 21st March 2009 I can't help on this one either Pam, but agree with Sue that somebody from within POE will be able to help. Good luck! |
Paul Hilton  Posts: 2605 Joined: 21st Nov 2004 Location: UK | quotePosted at 23:10 on 21st March 2009  Picture by Grant Shaw Might this be the former shop on left Pam , as it was next door to The Black Horse Inn; now the Old Black Horse. I see in 1851, his widowed mother aged 35, indicates Joseph was born c.1848. In 1881 and 1901 census, both ages given indicate born c.1845 and 7 years older than his wife. He and his family don't seem to come up on the 1861, 1871, 1891 census so perhaps they'd mis-spelt his name? The 1881 census gives his earlier address in Mapperley along with their 4 young children. Edited by: Paul Hilton at:21st March 2009 23:24 |
| Paul Hilton Posts: 2605 Joined: 21st Nov 2004 Location: UK | quotePosted at 01:22 on 22nd March 2009 Pam---you didn’t mention if you’d gone further back in your family’s history but a quick check shows--- William married Phebe (sic) Toplis 29 May, 1844. His parents were Thomas Birkin born 20 April, 1777 at Pentrich, Ripley, and mother Elizabeth Lee born 13 October, 1773. William’s granddad was also Thomas Birkin born 1748, who married a Jemima Fletcher. His mother Elizabeth’s parents were John Lee born 1745 at Wirksworth, and Elizabeth Ashover, born 1749, whose parents were David Ashover and Hannah Wragge. So, with Joseph, his older brother Thomas , born 1845 was named after his grandfathers, which begs who was Joseph named after? As for Joseph, after passing away in late 1917 aged 69, his Will was granted Probate in 1918. In his earlier years, I presume he worked at Mapperley Coal Colliery ? Kelly's Directory of 1891 shows Joseph Birkin as a shopkeeper. Edited by: Paul Hilton at:22nd March 2009 22:15 |
| Pamela Barnes Posts: 20 Joined: 21st Mar 2009 Location: UK | quotePosted at 10:21 on 22nd March 2009 thank you everybody, hi paul, i have gone further back in my tree, phoebe toplis 1813 my ggg grand mother, her father was thomas toplis 1776-1796, her mother was hannah unknown maiden name c1777, it appears that phoebe married a second time to joseph hobson b1802-1877 at derbyshire in 1851, 31 august. they had 5 children. joseph 1848 had 12 children. phoebe's father, thomas 1776 worked at denaby main coal mine, doncaster, my grandmother jane marie walker ( she married joseph clamp from warwickshire ) was elizabeth ann birkins (1872-1909) daughter and was born in denaby. thank you so much for your help, sorry for waffling on , i do get a bit carried away when it comes to finding my family, and thank you for photo, i hope to come to mapperley and see where they lived when i can, a big thank you , regards, pam |
| Pamela Barnes Posts: 20 Joined: 21st Mar 2009 Location: UK | quotePosted at 10:58 on 22nd March 2009 On 21st March 2009 21:38, Sue . wrote:
thank you sue, pam |
| Pamela Barnes Posts: 20 Joined: 21st Mar 2009 Location: UK | quotePosted at 10:59 on 22nd March 2009 On 21st March 2009 22:05, Ron Brind wrote:
thank you ron, pam |
| lancashirelove Posts: 1986 Joined: 18th Feb 2009 Location: UK | quotePosted at 11:20 on 22nd March 2009 On 21st March 2009 21:38, Sue . wrote:
hi Sue. as a 'northaner' we would think of Derbyshire as in the 'Midlands'' the 'true' north starts at a line drawn through leeds manchester to liverpool. The geographical centre of the country is in fact in the Ribble Valley in Lancashire. |
| Paul Hilton Posts: 2605 Joined: 21st Nov 2004 Location: UK | quotePosted at 19:56 on 22nd March 2009 Pam----a few bits and pieces you might not be aware of. Phoebe passed away in 1859, and husband John in 1861 is still looking after step-sons Thomas and Joseph. Thomas married Keziah Fretwell, and he was killed in the Parkhouse 7 colliery explosion, Clay Cross, on 7 November, 1882. The Derbyshire Times reported that his brother Joseph, now a grocer, had to identify Thomas’s body. There should be a memorial at the cemetery at Clay Cross.http://www.dmm2.org.uk/uknames/u1882-06.htm refers to your great-uncle Thomas. Joseph was born 2 Jan, 1848 and married Harriet 24 April, 1869. Harriet died 13 May, 1916. They had 12 children as you say, but Harriet also had a daughter Mabel Phobe Hawley born 26 Feb. 1868 and died 1st Dec. 1891, to make 13 children in their family. In the 1871 Census, Joe is shown as Joseph Bicker, and in 1891 he appears as Joseph Berkin, as I thought might be the case for his apparent ommsions. Some sources seem to suggest he was also a farmer in his latter years. And when you go to Mapperley, the church certainly has family connections there, and Joseph's son John William (1883-1943) is buried there with Hannah Birkin and her sister Mary Ann Fretwell. Edited by: Paul Hilton at:23rd March 2009 03:23 |
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