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Unforgivable Vices

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Shirley K. Lawson
Shirley K. Lawson
Posts: 2310
Joined: 17th Jul 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 18:30 on 2nd April 2009
anything that squealches one's desired freedom in some way, physically or mentally. ..with or without substance abuse of some kind.
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Gives Up! '
Gives Up! '
Posts: 1934
Joined: 30th Apr 2005
Location: UK
quotePosted at 18:37 on 2nd April 2009
Violence of any sort! Infidelity. Mental abuse. Liars and cheaters. Cruelty towards both persons and animals. Control freaks. All forms of bullying and humiliation. 
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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 05:24 on 3rd April 2009
On 2nd April 2009 17:31, Diana Sinclair wrote:
We keep saying child abuse, but is that really a vice?  I always think of a vice as something you could stop if you wanted to; but to my knowledge, the general consensus among psychological professionals, is that child abusers can not be cured...at least not at this time.  I tend to think of child abuse as pure, unadulterated evil.

Hi Diana:  I hate to sound unsympathetic, but apart from the profoundly mentally ill, the vast majority of people can stop any vice if they really want to.  And that's the key, do we really want to?  I think we all have something we'd like to change about ourselves, but we don't because the true desire to change isn't really there.  I'm not a psych professional, but I think a lot of people use their past as a crutch or an excuse to go on behaving badly.  Everything that goes wrong in their lives, and I mean everything, is always somebody else's fault.  But every day, we wake up with choices before us.

And I agree, there is definitely a difference between a vice and pure unadulterated evil.  But if something bad in a person's life is allowed to snowball because "it's not my fault," that's where evil can get a foothold and begin to supplant vice.   Most child abusers were themselves abused children.  No role model, no guidance, and little if any love, what we all need more than anything. But many have made the choice to break the cycle.

Having come from a loving and supportive family, I guess it's easy for me to point fingers, not knowing first hand what battles such children fight as they're becoming men and women.    So if these comments offend anybody, my apologies, that's not what I intend. 

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Diana Sinclair
Diana Sinclair
Posts: 10119
Joined: 3rd Apr 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 14:42 on 3rd April 2009

Ruth, I for one do not find your comments offensive, to the contrary, I always find your opinions insightful and well thought out. 

Your point about people using their past as an excuse for bad behavior is certainly true, and the post I made earlier about the priest with a predilection for pedophilia was the perfect example of someone taking responsibility for his life. Ultimately, I don't know if pedophiles can be "cured", but my feeling is, whether they can or can't, there is a difference between curing the craving for an addiction and controlling the behavior.  I crave simple carbohydrates but I know that if I give in and eat a diet rich in this substance I will suffer with many allergic reactions and become as large as a house. Therefore, I choose to drastically reduce my intake of this (to me) poisonous substance.

It's the same with alcoholism or drug addictions. I find it profoundly annoying that they are now labeling these life-style choices as "diseases". It totally absolves people of personal responsibility. I know a young man right now who is in his late 30's and does not drink alcohol (and never has), simply because alcoholism runs in his family, and he reasoned that if there is something in his genes that predisposes him to become addicted to alcohol, then he would simply avoid the problem all together by choosing to live a teetotaller life style.

When choices are labeled diseases and we thus feel justified in relinquishing the need to take personal control, how long before we are overtaken by complete anarchy?

 

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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 00:30 on 4th April 2009
On 3rd April 2009 14:42, Diana Sinclair wrote:

Ruth, I for one do not find your comments offensive, to the contrary, I always find your opinions insightful and well thought out. 

Why thank you, Diana.  That was very sweet of you to say. 

 


 



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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 00:38 on 4th April 2009
On 3rd April 2009 14:42, Diana Sinclair wrote:

When choices are labeled diseases and we thus feel justified in relinquishing the need to take personal control, how long before we are overtaken by complete anarchy?

 


And when people are stuck with the disease label, not only does it give them the excuse not to make choices that will improve their lives, it also takes the power away from them to do it.  They need to be told that the power to change is in their hands.  Yes, it's a struggle.  Yes, it often takes years or decades.  Yes, it's a battle with demons.  They won't do it until they're ready to, but it's doable.  Especially, if like they teach in the 12-step programs, you call on your Higher Power (aka God).

 

 

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Diana Sinclair
Diana Sinclair
Posts: 10119
Joined: 3rd Apr 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 13:49 on 6th April 2009
On 4th April 2009 00:38, Ruth Gregory wrote:
On 3rd April 2009 14:42, Diana Sinclair wrote:

When choices are labeled diseases and we thus feel justified in relinquishing the need to take personal control, how long before we are overtaken by complete anarchy?

 


And when people are stuck with the disease label, not only does it give them the excuse not to make choices that will improve their lives, it also takes the power away from them to do it.  They need to be told that the power to change is in their hands. 

 


Exactly right!
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