Mick Covell
Posts: 349 Joined: 7th Nov 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 17:54 on 19th November 2008 On 18th November 2008 22:21, MariaGrazia wrote: But which country saved the butt of us all 60 years ago? If they hadn't dropped them, someone else would have. Mind the others were just as involved and close as well in the rush to the nuclear. Imagine, just like in the plots of certain films, if the roles had been reversed. What if the US hadn't thrown those bombs , or if they hadn't won the cold war or what if somone else had the power they've got now? Their fault is just to have sat at the table as winners too many times to be liked or appreciated. As for Kennedy, you are right but that doesn't make the US gov worse than any other. Name a country which hasn't gone through some political murder in its history.. --Look up the Rothschild family, you will not believe their wealth and power. In fact, I think they might just OWN governments. And banks. Absolutely. In fact, every country has got their own Rothschild's. No illusion, the few rule over the many, and that's always been true, whether you are a democracy or a dictatorship, both if you live in the richest and in the most miserable place in the world. Only the ways change. Though Andy, the ways can make the difference. The fact that you and I are free to write as we are now is the key difference to me. What I am saying basically is that I agree about our western-capitalistic-US ruled world being faulty and gone mad, but I've still been awaiting a valid alternative before throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
I agree with you Maria , America is far from perfect but I would rather have them dominant in the world than the alternatives . The key argument you make for me is the one about us being free to write as we are now . I cant imagin us having this kind of freedom in a world in which the Chinese or Russians are dominant .
One thing about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that is overlooked is that however horrific it was it saved lives . Japan was a militaristic imperialist power at that time as far removed from the western democracys as you could hope to get . There was a part of the Japanese leadership at that time that where prepard to fight on . Japan had already seen most of its cities ravaged by fire bombing raids by fleets of B-29 bombers . Tokyo had lost over 90,000 dead in one such raid . And then even with the atomic bombings they where still ready to fight on until the last Japanese life . The death toll in an invasion of Japan would have run into the millions . It would have come to that but for those two atom bombings , thats what the Japanese leadership had planned . There plan was to inflict so many casualtys on the allies that they would just give up and go home . We are in uncertain times , we face a Russia looking to regain some of its lost glory , a China that is hungry for resources and doesnt care what it takes to get them ( look to Darfur for proof of that ) and an impossible to win conflict ( and yet one we cant aford to lose ) in the middle east . The United States is not perfect , far from it but is far better than the alternatives . |
Diana Sinclair
Posts: 10119 Joined: 3rd Apr 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 18:43 on 19th November 2008 On 19th November 2008 04:11, Ruth Gregory wrote: On 18th November 2008 22:21, MariaGrazia wrote: But which country saved the butt of us all 60 years ago? If they hadn't dropped them, someone else would have. Mind the others were just as involved and close as well in the rush to the nuclear. Imagine, just like in the plots of certain films, if the roles had been reversed. What if the US hadn't thrown those bombs , or if they hadn't won the cold war or what if somone else had the power they've got now? Their fault is just to have sat at the table as winners too many times to be liked or appreciated. As for Kennedy, you are right but that doesn't make the US gov worse than any other. Name a country which hasn't gone through some political murder in its history.. --Look up the Rothschild family, you will not believe their wealth and power. In fact, I think they might just OWN governments. And banks. Absolutely. In fact, every country has got their own Rothschild's. No illusion, the few rule over the many, and that's always been true, whether you are a democracy or a dictatorship, both if you live in the richest and in the most miserable place in the world. Only the ways change. Though Andy, the ways can make the difference. The fact that you and I are free to write as we are now is the key difference to me. What I am saying basically is that I agree about our western-capitalistic-US ruled world being faulty and gone mad, but I've still been awaiting a valid alternative before throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
Nicely said, Maria. Thanks! I'm with you. Not a better alternative as yet. I guess all of humanity throughout history has been at the mercy of their governments.
You've made some very good points, Andy and definitely provided food for thought. It's great to get some perspective from people in other countries. And yes, I believe and have always believed that the US isn't different from any other country in that we get spoon fed from our "free press" what the government wants us to know and believe. That's why the internet can be good as an alternative information source. But the www is another area in which it's nearly impossible to discern truth, so what do we do? This may be a very controversial thing to say, but I guess we'd better start praying. LOL.
I agree with Maria also, and I'll go you one better Ruth and really get controversial and quote scripture here: (LOL!)
O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. Jeremiah 10:23
Seems to sum it up very nicely, in my humble opinion. |
Mick Covell
Posts: 349 Joined: 7th Nov 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 18:54 on 19th November 2008 Very nice Diana |
Ray Stear
Posts: 1930 Joined: 25th Apr 2008 Location: UK | quotePosted at 19:16 on 19th November 2008 Well put Maria, and comments from Diana, Mick, and Ruth as well. I cannot comment on governmental policies, but I have worked with the American forces and know from first hand that they are not the 'Gung Ho' types that many people stereotype them as being. I was priviledged to serve in Europe and in southeast Asia with American servicemen and thought they were great guys. |
Diana Sinclair
Posts: 10119 Joined: 3rd Apr 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 19:19 on 19th November 2008 I had no idea Ray. |
Richard Sellers
Posts: 4691 Joined: 16th Jul 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 19:21 on 19th November 2008 I miss a couple of days............wow. |
Diana Sinclair
Posts: 10119 Joined: 3rd Apr 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 19:31 on 19th November 2008 On 19th November 2008 19:21, Richard Sellers wrote: I miss a couple of days............wow.
Yeah! Get with the program you! LOL! |
Richard Sellers
Posts: 4691 Joined: 16th Jul 2008 Location: USA | quotePosted at 19:36 on 19th November 2008 Am on a mission so to do !!! |
Ray Stear
Posts: 1930 Joined: 25th Apr 2008 Location: UK | quotePosted at 19:44 on 19th November 2008 On 19th November 2008 19:19, Diana Sinclair wrote:I had no idea Ray.
If I just say S.E. Asia and Vietnamese conflict. lol |
Andy Edwards
Posts: 1900 Joined: 14th Mar 2008 Location: UK | quotePosted at 21:29 on 19th November 2008 It's turning into an interesting debate now. Mind you, I'm talking about the Governments, not the servicemen...they just do what they're paid to do. |