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4th July: I don't want an Europe-like America

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MariaGrazia
MariaGrazia
Posts: 711
Joined: 25th Mar 2008
Location: Italy
quotePosted at 11:31 on 4th July 2009

Being my family's history always closely linked to the United States throughout all the last century, we have always used to celebrate the 4th of July, among the other things.

By posting the article by The Heritage Foundation below, I have no political intent, whose discussions in fact I usually refrain from getting involved in, but at least on this day, I for once wish to voice my thoughts and feelings in this Obama- loving and yet generally America-hostile country of mine (but I should say continent there ), where there seems to be little or no space left by now for despised so called 'conservatives' like me, actually more worried about the change in people's attitudes and principles rather than in mere political alliances.

Happy 4th July everyone and everywhere.

 

 

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lancashirelove
lancashirelove
Posts: 1986
Joined: 18th Feb 2009
Location: UK
quotePosted at 15:27 on 4th July 2009

Hi Maria, having just turned a young 60 years of age I feel I may be qualified to offer my view of this stuation. I am reasonably well educated and well travelled, I never argue party politics or about religion but keep my own council. I am not a liberal but I believe in fair judgement and fair play, these are my only codes of which I have navigated my way through life.

I'm sure no-one dispises you for your views Maria unless they are extreme and dangerous and I'm sure they are not.The dangers often come from the young and inexperienced, fed by deranged idealists.

Wisdom comes with age and experience. The American Independence was born when the young country came of age as with any young bird or animal there comes a time when it must leave its mother and make its own life. Mistakes will be made and hopfully it will survive to an old age, but only if it learns from its mistakes.  Happy 4th july America! 

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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 04:53 on 6th July 2009

Hi Maria:  Very interesting topic.  I don't know what political philosophy I am, I think I'm kind of a liberal conservative, or maybe a conservative liberal.  lol  But I think I can tell you why the shift to the left over here - more govt. regulation and involvement that the Obama administration is becoming known for.  Conservatism only works when there's a moral compass guiding it.  We wouldn't need govt. regulation if people would "do the right thing" and spare a thought for the greater good, and not just "what's in it for me."  Unbridled capitalism is the opposite end of the spectrum from communism.  And either extreme does not bode well for the best interests of the nation and the world.

The reason the govt. is reigning in the financial system is - it has to.  The conservatives who've been benefiting from the last 30 years of deregulation have finally drained us dry.  They're more than happy to take govt money, but "no strings attached, please."  Everybody wants less government, but that means taking responsibility for acting in such a manner that you don't need to be regulated.

As for govt. "sticking its nose where it doesn't belong,"  well that's why we no longer have slavery in America, it's why women have equal rights and status to men, it's why we have freedom of the press, civil rights, due process, clean water, clean air - this list goes on and on.  All the values we Americans hold dear are the result of legislation or the Constitution.  People, esp. big business, left to themselves will always choose "me" over "we." 

It's unfortunate, but it's also a swinging pendulum.  In another 20 or 30 years, it will swing back.

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MariaGrazia
MariaGrazia
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Joined: 25th Mar 2008
Location: Italy
quotePosted at 11:36 on 6th July 2009
Thank you for your input and wisdom, Mike and Ruth.
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Bob T
Bob T
Posts: 934
Joined: 8th Jan 2009
Location: USA
quotePosted at 12:56 on 6th July 2009
On 6th July 2009 04:53, Ruth Gregory wrote:

The reason the govt. is reigning in the financial system is - it has to.  The conservatives who've been benefiting from the last 30 years of deregulation have finally drained us dry.

Don't kid yourself or be fooled, Ruth. I've never known a liberal to turn down a fast buck. The liberals were more than happy to look the other way (and even have a hand in it) as long as their wallets were expanding.
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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
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quotePosted at 15:08 on 6th July 2009

I'm not kidding myself and have not been fooled, Bob.  You're absolutely right, please forgive the oversight.  People are people and human nature takes over no matter what political stripe you are.  That's what I meant about the moral compass.  Our political system works well when we control the WIFM side of human nature.  It's the "I want it all and I want it now," (which we all do) that we have to rise above.

 

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lancashirelove
lancashirelove
Posts: 1986
Joined: 18th Feb 2009
Location: UK
quotePosted at 16:12 on 6th July 2009
hi guys, i think the word 'moral' and 'decent' are the values to aim for, no matter what persuasion you live or vote.
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Bob T
Bob T
Posts: 934
Joined: 8th Jan 2009
Location: USA
quotePosted at 18:03 on 6th July 2009
On 6th July 2009 16:12, michael gerrard wrote:
hi guys, i think the word 'moral' and 'decent' are the values to aim for, no matter what persuasion you live or vote.

Unfortunately, moral and decent are two terms that cannot be used when referring to government.
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Richard Sellers
Richard Sellers
Posts: 4691
Joined: 16th Jul 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 18:06 on 6th July 2009
On 6th July 2009 16:12, michael gerrard wrote:
hi guys, i think the word 'moral' and 'decent' are the values to aim for, no matter what persuasion you live or vote.


Hear ! hear !
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Barbara Shoemaker
Barbara Shoemaker
Posts: 1764
Joined: 4th Jan 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 18:07 on 6th July 2009

"We don’t need to remake America, or discover new and untested principles. The change we need is not the rejection of America’s principles but a great renewal of these permanent truths about man, politics, and liberty—the foundational principles and constitutional wisdom that are the true roots of our country’s greatness."

Thanks for posting this article, Maria.  Putting politics aside, I would consider myself a "conservative" as a person, in thought and deed, and agree with Michael that morality and decency need to be reinjected into our everyday lives and in the way we treat each other and conduct our business and politics.  One doesn't often meet a European who admits to being a conservative.  Bravo, you!  You are not alone, much to the dismay of the EU, I'm sure.

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