dirty trick brigade

We were all mislead when we first joined Europe - it was purely supposed to be a union of nations coming together to allow free trade.  However, we are now gradually becoming more and more politically integrated and if Europe does not get the result it wants first time (as with Ireland) another vote takes place until they get the result we want.

I quite admired Gordon Brown until he backtracked on his promise to give the people of this country a Referendum.  Thankfully, he did not take us into the Euro.

I love travelling and seeing different cultures by the way and I am certainly no Europhobe or racist - quite the opposite.  However, free trading is totally different to political union.  I would also like to add that whereas this country seems to abide by the rules (absurdly so in cases of interpreting the Human Rights Act) much of the rest of the Continent turn a blind eye.

This country is one of the biggest contributors to the European Union by the way. 

The grants received by this country are only a fraction of the money that we have paid into Europe (our own money coming back to us). 

Why does the European Union go to the unnecessary expense of two Parliaments - Brussels and Strasburg.

This country also sold off a lot of our Gold reserves to prop up the Euro in its early days.

We are West European but we need to trade fairly with and build good relations with countries on other continents. 

lets not forget that it was mrs t's government that led us down the Europe path, she was also cutting down on public and military spending (which triggered the expensive Falklands conflict), she shut the coal mines and sold off British Steel, cut down on the maintainence and rebuilding of the countries infrastructure and transport systems. she squandered revenue from North sea oil and Gas, she implimented the dreaded poll Tax and useless unthought-out Child support Agency etc.

as I predicted in a previous post, the 'dyed in the wood' (or should that be 'Dead in the wood') hard line supporters of each party will continue to vote with blinkerd weiw. it will be the 'floating' voter  that decides this next election. If you are reliant on any income from the public sector (and about 75% of us are), you are not going to vote for public cutbacks. This means civil servants, military, Nhs, policeing, Local government, Government funded agencies. Care for the Elderly or State Pensioners. (They may tell you they are voting for a certain party to save face, but when they get to the privacy of the voting booth, they will vote for the party they will  personally benefit from).

Cutting back on public and military spending did not trigger the Falklands War - Argentina invaded!!!

I, personally, could not see much wrong with the Poll Tax.  Why should a single person (perhaps a pensioner) pay only a third less in Council Tax than three working adults next door.

I would also add that 'All Parties' are going to have to look at reducing spending in the Public Sector if Britain is to reduce its huge deficit.

I am not brave enough to predict the outcome of the next election and consider myself a floating voter.  We do, however, need a change in direction, whether it be from Labour, Tory, UKIP,  Monster Raving Looney Party.

Jane

if you study the full facts of the Falklands conflict, jane, cut backs did indeed 'triger' the conflict. Mrs 't' was cutting back on defence (in fact had the Argies waited 12 more months we could not have mounted the task force as we did),

The Falklands was protected by one armed british survey ship, the British MOD had anouced  its withdrawal due to Government cut backs. President 'G' , the right wing Argentina governor was unpopular and his government was in real danger of being overthrown by  the 'left wing'.  The US, concerned that it didnt want a left wing country on its doorstep invited him to Washington for talks. When he got back home he decided to raise his standing and boost the moral by annoucing he was to secure the Falklands for his Country. His foces invaded and captured the Ship, taking care not to injure the armed British crew he sent them home. No-one, including the US Government expected the Brits to retaliate in the way they did. To quote US General Haigh '..to protect a pile of rocks and a thousd shepherds' He, they, misjudged the British. we converted cruise ships and the like (even the QE ll,) and sent a 'task force', the rest is history. General Haigh (who probly thought the plan up anyway) was ordered by his president to try and sort it out, he couldn't and later resigned (or was sacked?)

As for the polltax, there was nothing wronge with the original 'Rating' system on households but Mrs (T) saw a chance to tax everyone on the electorial list (hence poll-tax). This was the blunder that eventualy brought her down.

Yes ALL parties are going to have a look at public spending in the future but does a nurse hold a big needle in front of a child and say 'I'm going to stick this in you' lol.Its better sometimes not to know what your going to get! and before I hear cries of 'stealth tax etc', and 'u-turns', to quote Mrs 'T', 'you turn  if you want! lol 

The Falklands War was still instigated by Argentina and another conflict could well erupt as we are now drilling for oil in the Falklands.  As you well know though we are now fully committed in Iraq and Argentina - our troops cannot be spread everywhere. 

The previous household rating system was even more unfair.  A single person did not get third off their council tax, as now, and paid the same as perhaps 3/4 working adults next door.

Anyway - thanks for putting your points of view.  Nice chatting to you.  Have a good day.

Jane

Thanks for the debate JJ,  yes that ugly phrase 'drilling for oil', remember Iraq? thats what causes conflict, 'oil', and the worlds dependance on it. its been good having the 'banter with you' and I'm sure others that have been veiwing this thread, life is all about politics but I make it my point never to argue about it, as with Religion. An healthy dabate, listening to all sides (even though you may not agree) at least highlights and stimulates conversation and as I have said in my of my posts, talking things through is better than fighting blindly. The media and newspapers only tell what they want you to hear without giving chance of reply.

Thanks Jane and anyone else we may have bored to death on this thread.