Catholic institutions preyed on needy kids

In the wash, rather than choosing to act as individuals toward change ~ and address responsibility of damage ( you  name it....marriage and divorce ~birth control issues and abortion, rape and abuse of orphaned children, unmarried pregnant girl's loss of their infants and resulting shame & suicide or other self inflicted pain, disintegration of remote tribal cultures, et cetera ) be recognised by the church ( send this milky~ gossip Tsk, Tsk, Tsking to the pope for his morning reading ) a preference to pray to the sheltering sky whilst drawing out self righteous staves from under the softly padded kneeling bars & as a group ~ strike against a solitary voice for truth ~ thus perpetuating powerlessness, cruelty and controlling loyalty to a patriarchy of oppression & denial of  intellectual freedom and dignity of human spirit lo these many, many years.

Anna, I can't and never would deny "truth", especially historical truth.  Everything you listed as church atrocities over the centuries is absolutely true.  The history is quite ugly.  But once you disentangle yourself from all that (which happened over the course of centuries, by imperfect human beings struggling for power), you can find God in it.  But being an atheist, and being raised an atheist, I can understand how that makes no sense to you.

As for this:  as a group ~ strike against a solitary voice for truth ~ thus perpetuating powerlessness, cruelty and controlling loyalty to a patriarchy of oppression & denial of  intellectual freedom and dignity of human spirit lo these many, many years

I'm afraid I must ask you to clarify again.  When you say, "as a group" are you referring to the church or the people on POE?  If it's the people on POE, I can assure you, the opinions among the people on this forum are all over the board.  In fact, I think it would be safe to say that there are no 2 of us with exactly the same beliefs.

When you say "a solitary voice for truth" are you referring to you and your views?  Your are most certainly entitled to your opinon here, but any of us could also feel the same way about ourselves.  We have discussed the topic of prayer and spirituality and religion and atheism many times and done it in a fashion where no one feels attacked. 

You are an artist, Anna, and you write beautifully.  I would say that takes somewhat of an open mind.  I would also ask you to remember that about yourself when conversing about these controversial topics.  No one is trying to "convert" you, we only express our thoughts.  But we try our best to do it kindly and tactfully.  I think that's all we ask.

Eloquently said Ruth.

Thanks, Diana. 

Wish I could stay and chat, but I'm off to the stone.  Have a great day, everybody!  xx

Your right Ruth.

 I'm not religious, in the 'go to church' sense, but i have my own beliefs. Having said that i would never 'mock' others beliefs, its just hurtful, and  you never really know if you are wrong or right, humans are very good at jumping to the wrong conclusion.

I don't thing anybody is trying to convert anybody else on here? but freedom of speech can be very hurtful if used wrong! it holds a power that should be used with care, there is no point speaking exactly what is on your mind if its just going to annoy everyone around you, and cause them to switch off to you, it serves no purpose, its far better to put your point across in a manor all will understand and listen to. The louder you shout doesn't always mean more people will hear!  Liken it to shoving your hand into a pool of fish and thrashing it about, trying to catch one!!  you'll never do it, they swim away, but if your careful, and think about it, you'll catch one!! 

I think we need to stop been angry, and judgemental of other peoples views, live our lives how we think is the best (remembering we all have to live together on this rock!!) and try to learn from our contact with others, and things we see around us!