Catholic institutions preyed on needy kids

Maybe not so relevant in this thread at this moment but it felt right putting it here.

"My issue on the topic of this thread is not with God and "why" He allows such things to happen. We (individuals) make the choices to do what we do and behave the way we behave. God gave us life, free will, a conscience to guide that free will, and a planet to live upon, how we manage all that has been given us is our problem, not His. - AGREED

We get so righteous and indignant at God for not "stepping in" and doing something about the mess we've created but we are the ones who chose to ignore the warning signs and take action to prevent such problems. Why is that God's fault? - AGREED

To the topic of thread; we allow pedophiles and angry violent people to hide behind the cloak of religious orders (not to mention schools, day care facilities, and other institutions) and then hold God accountable for what we have allowed. Did God tell us to build religious institutions and endow them with power and authority and worship them like they were God himself? They exists because it is part of our religious and social evolution, God did not create them. If we don't like what we have created then maybe it's time for us to change the evolutionary course of our religious lives. - AGREED

I just get so tired of the general lack of personal responsibility that the human race seems so willing to embrace when it comes to such things. It's always, pass the buck, who can I blame for this mess? - AGREED

The bottom line is that people created this mess and it's up to us to look this evil in the eye and obliterate it. I for one think we are far too sentimental about life. I have no problem with the death penalty for unrepentant criminals who abuse children and rob children of their rights to a safe, nurturing, and loving environment to grow up in. I say, terminate them all, make the world safer for children, and take the money we spend on housing (in prisons), feeding, clothing, medical care, etc., to protect these criminal offenders and use it to give these poor needy children the care they deserve. - AGREED

You've nailed it again, Diana.  Well put.  I wonder how much of this behavior is caused by the forced abstinence of the Catholic clergy and not allowing priests and nuns to marry?

If any of you have ever read the prayer threads, you know I'm Catholic, and my heart breaks every time I hear yet another report like this.  Diana, I think you spoke very eloquently about your position and I feel exactly the same as you on all points except the death penalty.  I think there are probably worse punishments, but they would never fly in a man's world, if you know what I mean.  But I don't consider a 6X6 foot cell and 3 squares a day for the rest of your life too harsh a sentence for anyone who abuses a child.

I emphasized every time in the last paragraph because, like Diana said, it's still going on.  Diana, I'm sure you're familiar with the hundreds of millions of dollars that the Archdiocese of Boston had to pay out over this issue when this same story broke in the US about 5 or 7 years ago.  The Diocese of Phoenix had similar problems and our new bishop instituted a zero tolerance policy.  Under no circumstances is an adult ever to be alone with a minor and you can not participate in any church ministries (communion ministers, religious ed, St. Vincent de Paul, even if you're the person who volunteers to wash the altar linens) without taking a training on the sexual abuse of minors and the diocesan policy.  The diocese keeps the training records and also requires an annual refresher course.  This year's was about technology - cell phones, social networking sites, cyberbullying, etc.

I'm very pleased with the way our diocese is being proactive in the prevention of abuse.  They even instituted a paid staff position (a lay person, not clergy) called the youth protection advocate.  Krissy, you asked if there's anything we can do and the answer is "h*** yes!  Hold them accountable."  The first year of this training program, the diocese laid out the standard protocol for reporting a case of suspected abuse.  It stipulated that you contact the diocese first.  It was the people in the pews who said, "H*** no!  If we suspect abuse, it is the police who will get the first call."  The county attorney concurred and worked very closely with the diocese to get them to change their policy.  But it was the lay faithful who said, "this is unacceptble and it better d*** well be addressed properly."

Jason, you said, "Probably defend the religion i'd have thought, and i don't want to offend anybody, like i said i'm sure there is plenty of very good people within the religion, just a lot of bad greedy perverts ruining it for them!!  And that's an important point.  There are a billion Catholics worldwide, so there is bound to be as many bad members among them, proportionately, as any other large institution.  But the fact that it's mostly clergy who are the biggest offenders is really disgusting.  This report that came out in Ireland should name names and begin prosecution of any offenders, no matter how long ago it happened.  They are child molesters and child abusers like any other common criminal and should be treated as such.

Barbara, I don't think the celibate clergy has anything to do with it.  The celibate clergy is modeled after Jesus himself.  The abuse in the church (and not just the Catholics) isn't limited to priests only.  I don't think they molest children because they're not "getting any."  They're just perverts like any other teacher, coach, minister, uncle or anyone who has the perversion of being a pedophile.

The thing that really bothers me about this is that stuff like this drives people away from, not just church or religion, but God.  And although I'm a catholic, I think in the prayer threads I said several times how organized religion can be a hugely destructive force if used as a tool of power and greed.  To anyone watching out there, I would say, don't let religion rob you of faith in God.  God has no religion.  It's people who've perverted Jesus' message of love and compassion.  God is a God of mercy, but he's also a God of justice.

Your all thinking right on this one..you know where we went wrong, when we expected others to do our jobs as parents. When both parents had to go back to work to sustain an living income because the male could no longer hold the line. That is when we had to hand the kids over to others. When we started having no say so or no knlowedge about what was going on in thier lives. When parents were also not made accountable for their raising their children also. As for rmost the "louses", they are weak and insecure individuals whom seek gratification any way they can get it, including abuses of others, if the need arises and it's available to them. Don't make it available to them. They just nailed teachers last week in this state...(1) no longer can they hand out "disabilty" graduation certificates because they are not adhereing to the "no child left behind" clause. In one case they let an student have his diploma simply on the grounds he could speak "English". The schools over here have to meet criteria on their students learning you know now in order for Federal funding  to them.  (2) They passed legislation that no teacher could be quietly dismissed from employment into another teaching position for being acused  of "abuse"..the "abuse" has to be disclosed to authorites...and not the school system itself only. so I think people are working on it. Last week was an hallmark of such things going on around here. I think people are fed up. As for our President, they were on Bushs' rear for spending to much money miltarily, well, so far this President has promised money five times the amount Bush had as his budget. Massive lay-offs by companies that are not even going under and never had the possiblty of doing so... some of the "cut-backs" are phoney that are going on right now. Someone came up with an "cute" management trick some time ago, it was raise the price and layoff the employee...you'll end up with the same profit margin..minus the employee benefits paid out and that is what all this is stuff going on is about. They knew people wouldn't buy into losing their jobs and still do business with them, so they cocked up the "going bankrupt" to look innocent...and of course to also get an hefty bail-out package if they scream loud enough. What they forgot, was with massive lay-off's whose got the money to buy anything...let alone pay those higher prices. I kind of got off religion, though there's an large "fake" non-profit society out there these days..and one in being corrupt in one thing, its just as easy in something else. Like child abuse. the ills in society are all over indeed and need changing. I think at times God permits the bad things just to see whose got the "guts" to stand up to the wrong...or at least question what's going on. God gives us back, what we put out for his justice, if not this lifetime, then the next.  Just ask those whom have gone on the other side thinking if they commited sucide they'd free themselves of the issue... to say they understand now that they made an mistake in doing it....they still have to right the wrong...if not over there, then when they re-incarnate again, and all continual "living souls" reincarnate. Check out an few Brian Weiss books in past life regresstions if you don't think so.  

Native Americans have been saying this for years and generations as to not only the Catholic Church, but our Goverment also in abusing them. Who can they go to for leagal action when it has to be the Government..the very ones that do the abuse..that's like having to defend your rape.. from the rapist in authority over you concerning the manner. Not a whole lot of justice really gets done under those circumstances. One reason they greatly hate most white people, when what they really mean are those in authority over them. where things are not held accountable, they are often corrupt..the bigger something is your dealing with, the more chances there's corruption of some kind going on.  

Barbara, I am not a professional psychologist, but I am fairly sure of my accuracy when I say, "forced abstinence" is not the issue. First of all, no one is "forced" into the religious life. They choose it; if they are not prepared for the life of celibacy these orders currently impose then they shouldn't enter the religious life.

No, I don't think it's about celibacy at all. Pedophiles and other predators are very clever, they seek out situations, whether it be a vulnerable single mother with young children, a day care facility desperate for help, schools in need of teachers, or the cloak of a religious life, and they infiltrate these places, earn the trust of the powers that be and wait for the right moment to prey upon the innocent.

I am going to say something that is liable to ruffle a lot of feathers here but I feel strongly that it's a major contributing factor to the whole church/pedophilia scandal.

In my humble opinion, one of the reasons we (the public in general) find it so hard to address these issues and stop it is because the problem doesn't start in churches, or daycare, or schools. The problem originates in our homes. We can't look at it (pedophilia) out there because the finger points back to in here (our homes).

Men and women who become abusers are more often then not abused themselves by family members in their own homes. Until we can look within and clean up our own back yards so to speak, the problem will continue to persist out there.