Your thoughts on prayer 2

I don't think 'So?' addresses the question, Ruth.

In a previous post I mentioned some of the things that creationists believe in. Sue said that the only thing on the list she believed in was the Virgin Birth. 

If the idea of a Virgin Birth is present in many other myths - and it is - I think it's legitimate to ask Sue why she feels that this particular Virgin Birth has some kind of special status. Especially given the fact that most of the other Virgin Birth myths pre-date Christianity.

Yes, John, religious beliefs can be dangerous. But are you saying that there are no killings and bloodshed in atheistic regimes?  What about Stalin and Pol Pot.?  Or Germany in WW2?  They thought it OK to experiment on their victims. They also believed in the survival of the fittest (and God help anyone who was looking a bit off-colour) measuring heads and noses and chins to establish the superiority of one race over another. Please don't use this argument because it holds no water at all.

It is unchristian beliefs that lead to the kind of things we see on the TV and has nothing to do with the real and living God.

A faith in God is not irrational to me. In fact you need look no further than our own country that has changed beyond recognition in the past 40 or so years. Stabbings and killings have become almost routine. They are ceasing to shock anymore. I think that has a lot to do with believing we are alone in an uncaring and cold universe. I wouldn't like to live in any of the big cities today. Survival of the fittest seems to be the name of the game. No one to answer to, no bigger picture. It has seeped into the judiciary , the media and the whole Establishment.

Jerimiah 8 v 9 : They have rejected the very word of God, and what wisdom do they have?

Great points, Sue.  Yes, John, I agree with Sue and have stated previously numerous times. the destructive power of religion gone bad.  I'm sorry if I pigeon-holed all atheists as being without hope or being uncaring.  And I'm sure that for many atheists, it's a genuine concern for the good of the world that makes them embrace reason over faith, especially given the history of religion.  But religion has its other side too, when it' not gone bad.  There are many people and have been many people who have made great sacrifices for the good of their fellow man, because they love God.  Not everyone can be Mother Teresa, but I believe it's the force of Christianity that has shaped the value system that you and I now enjoy.  Jesus' message was one of love.  And all religions have an element of love in them, but religion gone bad overlooks this - trying to enforce the letter of the law, at the expense of the spirit of the law.  Atheism gone bad is made manifest in what Sue described, which is just as chilling.  If all people of faith or no faith, of any religious pursuasion or no religious pursuasion would embrace "love thy neighbor as thyself," this conversation would be unnecessary and it would be a pretty wonderful world.

I can't speak for Sue, John, but I'll bet her answer is pretty close to mine, which I highlighted in red above.  As for why the Christian virgin-birth idea is better or more real than the others that pre-date Christianity - I don't know, honestly, apart from, after 2,000 years, that's the one that's still believed, perhaps because it arrived after man's concept of a creator.  That was huge, John, from the historical perspective.  An omnipotent creator who can and does create from nothing.  But that's what I believe.  What you refer to as presuppositions, John, I call faith.  And again, on the face of it, it's irrational, but like I said, reality can, and I believe, does exist outside the realm of our five senses. 

Now you know how I feel after I'm gone for a day or two.  But I love it!!!

The original concept of the thread was your thoughts on prayer and in the beginning of the first thread everybody expressed their thoughts.  The discussion has taken some interesting turns, but bringing it back to prayer, I'd like to share a bit of a piece that sums up nicely what prayer has meant to so many throughout the ages - ancient wisdom that cannot be measured in any way, apart from results.  The piece is the introduction to a book called "Pocket Book of Prayers" by Jim Palmer.  He isn't the actual author - the book is an extensive compilation of prayers, some ancient, some new by many different people from various faith traditions - Catholic saints, Christian apologists, evangelical preachers, ancient prayer books, even monarchs and noblemen.  The prayer I put up in an earlier posting by Sir Francis Drake is from this book and Drake is not exactly known for being a theologian.  lol  I guess that's why the book attracted me - it was about Christian prayer in all its forms and expressions of faith from believers across the spectrum.

Palmer writes:  "There is a river that runs so true through the epic story of God's redemption of the world.  It is the enduring conversation between God and man - a river of prayer.  You can follow the river through the ages and across the continents through biblical records, Celtic oral traditions, monastic liturgies, spirituals and hymns, private journals and personal letters, and cathedral inscriptions.  Follow the river of prayer long enough and inevitably you will find yourself eavesdropping upon the intimate reflections of some of history's most pivotal people in situations that would shape their times.

The river winds along the rocky coasts of Ireland, where St. Patrick boldly called upon God's protection, around Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, where Martin Luther King, Jr. wrestled with God over the suffering of the civil-rights movement, through the villages of Calcutta, where Mother Teresa pleaded for divine assistance in caring for the needs of orphans; and along ground zero in New York City, where a young mother stands with twins in tow, seeking the strength of God to carry on.  It also runs alongside the spiritual pilgrimage of countless souls who sought to know, love and follow God and who discovered deep delight in the knowing and the loving and the following.

Throughout the ages, men and women have stood in the river by utilizing the prayers of others to give expression to their own hearts before God.  Whether it is seeking guidance amid confusion, courage in the face of fear, healing from heartaches, hope and peace in circumstances of despair, or a desire to know and experience God more deeply in your life, consider this book of prayers a sacred pathway for your daily journey of speaking and listening to God.

We did a really cool thing at my church today.  In the Catholic tradition, today (Oct. 4) is the feast of St. Francis of Assissi.  St. Francis was a lover of animals and all of God's creation.  So our parish priest, who is a real dog nut, conducted a blessing of the animals on the church lawn.  All were invited to bring their pets.  We had music, prayer and then he blessed them and spinkled them all with holy water accompanied by his little pooch, who was also wearing a Roman collar.  lol.  It was great fun.  I took Denzil and my big cat Russ.  Denzil had a ball, but I don't think Russ thought of it as much of a blessing.  LOL.  And they now have St. Francis medals to wear on their collars.

Here are some pics of the event:

http://s536.photobucket.com/albums/ff328/ruthyg_photos/Blessing%20of%20the%20Animals/

In one of the pics, the little brown dog with the big smile is my little cheeky chappy Denzil.

The blessing of the animals also included this old hymn.  Some of you might remember it.  When you watch the video, pay close attention to the images.  A lot of them remind me of either people or pictures on POE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZfkUGiGzQE