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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 02:34 on 19th June 2008
Night, Paul. :o)
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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 02:52 on 19th June 2008

Re: Andy's reply to Dennis' post a few pages back:

As for what you mentioned, Andy, the "diversity" of culture - well, the US has always been referred to as a melting pot.  Trouble is, it isn't a melting pot anymore.  It's more of a salad now, than a melting pot - a lot of different identities, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But I think what the citizens of a great nation fear and don't like is the loss of a national identity.  I think Sue G.R. mentioned that on here somewhere.  3 out of 4 of my grandparents were from the "old country" (all the immigrants of their generation referred to their home countries as the old country, no matter where they were from).  When they arrived here, they left the old ways behind and wanted nothing more than to become Americans.  Now when people arrive from elsewhere, they want to make it New (name the country).  I think it's important for immigrants to not lose the best of their culture and language, and maybe even pass along a pride of heritage to their children, but if you move to another country, you are doing a disservice to yourself and your adopted nation by not assimilating.  And the more people who don't adopt the ways of their adopted land, the more the national identity seems to slip away.  I found England to be very "English," or at least what my perception of Englishness is.  But a lot of what's wrong with this issue is the price we pay for what the immigrants come to the UK and the US for - FREEDOM!

PS - We got a great meal from a most excellent fish & chips shop on the main drag going south from York city, Andy, in Fulford, just down from the Best Western (creepy US hotel chain lol). I believe it's called Miller's.  That's how I found out about mushy peas.

I wish I didn't type so fast - I have a tendency to ramble.  Sorry.

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Ruth Gregory
Ruth Gregory
Posts: 8072
Joined: 25th Jul 2007
Location: USA
quotePosted at 02:59 on 19th June 2008
Oh, by the way, when we were over there, I told my husband no McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell or whatever - they're the restaurants that really ruin the Englishness of England.  But we broke down on our last day in London, and went to Burger King hoping to find a decent cup of coffee after two weeks.  No such luck.  That was the only thing I didn't like about over there.  They had tea though - I think if you ordered tea in McDonald's in the US, they'd be totally clueless.
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Andy Edwards
Andy Edwards
Posts: 1900
Joined: 14th Mar 2008
Location: UK
quotePosted at 06:31 on 19th June 2008
Great points Ruth! The trouble is in the UK, the immigrants that come here don't conform to our rules and regulations and customs, in fact so much so that laws are passed to make sure we don't interfere with THEIR rules. Hull has one of the highest (if not the very highest) number of Eastern European populations in the UK. Latvians, Bosnians, Czechs, Lithuanians, Poles, Russians etc, many of them coming here to make a quick buck, then returning to their home countries after 6 months or so with their spoils, only to return the next year to do the same. Agriculture attracts these 'migrants', so our area and East Anglia and Lincolnshire get their fair share. Debbie works in the greenhouses, producing cucumbers and strawberies all year round for the supermarket chains.....a job she's had for 25 years or so. The migrants that arrive at the greenhouse earn on average twice as much as she does per week (anything up to about £600) because they have to be on a seperate pay structure than Debs and her co-workers. They live in mobile homes on the site and do very nicely thankyou. When they arrive the following year, it's not in a clapped out minibus like the first year, it's in brand new Audis and Volkswagens, so they go from paupers to princes in 6 months flat. I wonder how much pay I would get in their countries, how well I would be treated, how many gangs I would form and how many stabbings I would commit? Parts of Hull are like ghettos, no go zones because many of the Eastern European peoples hate (that's only just a strong enough word) their fellow Eastern European countrymen and women, fights, stabbings and murders are not uncommon. To cap it all, after a month or two they have 'sussed' how to make a very quick buck by slowing down their workrate whilst on overtime and picking sub standard fruit to make up numbers. I have this on absolutely the best authority and have seen it first hand. Debbie works every second Saturday and Sunday, always has done.......she now finds herself working 2 or 3 hours more on these days just because  they (the migrant workers) go slower to earn more. Debbie doesn't get paid overtime either, so how fair is it all? Joining the EU has made it very hard for the UK, prices have risen, ridiculous rules and laws have been passed and we have an influx of people from war torn countries that are hell bent on bringing their differences to OUR streets. I dislike the situation intensly. Andy.
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L
L
Posts: 5656
Joined: 10th Jun 2004
Location: UK
quotePosted at 07:12 on 19th June 2008
Well said Andy! My thoughts are....wherever you decide to live you should follow the laws and customs of that country, NOT expect that country to adopt YOUR laws and customs!! And also....LOOK AFTER YOUR OWN FIRST Mr Brown!!
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Andy Edwards
Andy Edwards
Posts: 1900
Joined: 14th Mar 2008
Location: UK
quotePosted at 07:15 on 19th June 2008
100% with you on that Lyn!
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Dennis White
Dennis White
Posts: 33
Joined: 9th May 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 07:31 on 19th June 2008

It's been really great to read all of your posts.  Thanks for the good advice Andy.  I do hope I can afford to come back and do it right one day.  As it is, our dollar is Lilliputian over there, so I'm either going to have to strike gold here in California, or wait until the pound shrinks.

 It is enlightening to read such similar sentiments there as exist here.  Our cities are suffering from the same maladies as yours,  Our country folks tend as well to be so much friendlier and respectful to others that you might find in the cities (though to be fair, I have met wonderful people in American and in British cities, and in fact, I found that if I stop someone and show them a little respect and kindness, I am rewarded with kindness in return.  I so enjoyed striking-up conversations, particularly with what I judged to be slightly older (than me), professorial English gentlemen on the streets in Oxford - just the kind of conversations I expected and hoped for: brief, polite and so "matter-of-fact.").  And believe me, I was under no illusion that I was going to take-in the "true English experience" in a few short days.

And Andy, like it or not, the London subway is a English as it gets for an American like me.  Yes, I do love your green fields, and some of the pictures on this site bring tears to my eyes to be sure, but if I visited your country and didn't get into one of those old, rickety trains, well, I'd have to say that I would be a little disappointed.

Dennis

 

 

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Dennis White
Dennis White
Posts: 33
Joined: 9th May 2008
Location: USA
quotePosted at 07:36 on 19th June 2008

b.t.w...  Great analysis and commentary Ruth.

 

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Andy Edwards
Andy Edwards
Posts: 1900
Joined: 14th Mar 2008
Location: UK
quotePosted at 07:53 on 19th June 2008
Good morning Dennis, I appreciate what you say, of course. The London underground is as English as it gets, without doubt and is a must see, as are the houses of Parliament, Big Ben, Nelsons' column etc. And yes, our cities have very much to offer the tourist and resident alike, I'll not deny it. It's only through sites like this that you see the unchartered England, it just seems a shame to me that so much unspoilt beauty go unnoticed, or am I contradicting myself? Perhaps that's why these places are unspoilt! Yes, Ruth states most eliquently the best way to see England, but I have to pick up on one point. Fly to Manchester from the States and you're already in Northern England, you'll see the pennine hills from the window of your plane and you'll be close to Liverpool, Manchester and the Lake district. For a second visit, having seen London and Oxford, I'd recommend it. Kindest regards, Andy.
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Peter Evans
Peter Evans
Posts: 3863
Joined: 20th Aug 2006
Location: UK
quotePosted at 11:12 on 19th June 2008
Ruth, on your trip south to Cornwall, try a detour to Snowdon in north Wales. Fantastic place to visit. Here's a couple of photos I took from halfway up Snowdon.
Glyder Fawr and the valey, From Snowdon
Picture by Peter Evans


Another view from on Snowdon
Picture by Peter Evans


I think you just may like it there.
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