Your thoughts on prayer

Hi John:  I have three questions:

First, what is about the notion of God that fascinates you?

Second, do you feel that atheism offers any kind of hope, the kind of hope that people of faith speak about?

Third, do you feel from your experience maybe talking to others who don't believe in God that people come to disbelieve because the concept of God makes no sense to them, or is it because of some bad experience with "religion" that put them off believing in God?

Thanks, John.  Anybody else -  feel free to chime in. 

Sounds good, Diana.

If I ever get chance to see it, I'll make a point of doing so.

Three great questions, Rurh.

I'm fascinated by the notion of God for dozens of reasons, but one of the main ones is more to do with people than with God per se. I find the strength of our need to believe fascinating. I also find it amazing that many people who are brought up to believe simply never, ever question their belief. I've always questioned just about everything so that kins of mind-set is alien to me.

Does atheism offer any hope? It depends what you mean. If your hope is fixed on the possibility of a life beyond what we have here and now, then no. You can't find that kind of hope in atheism. But I find comfort in the kind of position Carl Sagan talked about in one of his books:

Not a cheery read - but it's there if you're in the mood!

Hi John:  Earlier on in the thread you mentioned about this being good pub talk and I wish we could be at a pub discussing it, because we might end up with carpal tunnel when all is said and done.  LOL

I read your story - and I'm so sorry for your loss.  Loss and bereavement have a way of bringing one closer to God or more distant from him.  I've experienced both.  I was 12 when my mom died, about the same age you were when your sister died.  I don't remember having the anger that you had, just a lot of numbness.  But when I was 37 and he was 16, my son Tim died in a car crash, and that's when I had my wrestling match with God.  Frankly, I wanted to beat the crap out of God.  And as you mentioned above, everything I believed or was taught to believe came into question.  I devoured everything I could get my hands on about death, the afterlife, what other faith traditions believe, etc, etc, etc.  I also wrote too, mostly poems.  But I finally found my "faith" and believe that's what allowed me to cope.  I believe that the Lord walks me thru this.

In your story, it's your mother that I identify with.  The worst thing a person would ever have to do will be to attend the funeral of his or her child.  I think my faith is so strong now because I did challenge God to answer me in my anger and grief, and he did. Not all at once and not overnight and not with all the platitudes that people lay on you at a time like this.  There's no silver lining, but there's hope. And when it's your child who's experiencing eternity, whatever it may be, you have one foot there for a long time before both feet are once again firmly planted on the good, green earth again.  That's what I believe, John.  No, that's what I know to be true, and even if it really isn't true, if it's real to me, then it must be so.  Again I emphasize, this is my experience, my opinion.

OK, you said you find the strength of our need to believe fascinating. Would you consider it a biological instinct, like the need to eat and drink and mate?  As for what Sagan said - "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring," I don't think he, or Darwin, or Dawkins, or Hawking, or St. Francis, or the Dali Lama or the pope, or anyone alive is the definitive authority on what "the Universe as it is" really is.  Close mindedness is rampant on both sides of the discussion, you know.

As for hope, it's far better, I believe, to be able to look death in the eye, with the faith that there is a God and that he's pure love and we will continue, as Sagan stated.  Nobody really knows, but for all of us, it's not a question of if we're going to die, but when.  And as for everybody seemingly believing in a different God, couldn't that just be a matter of semantics, John, but it's the creator we need to believe in, no matter what we perceive him or her to be?

As for the scriptures being contradictory, yes they are!  But part of the reason for the misunderstandings and misreadings is that is that the churches have done such a poor job over the centuries of providing guidance in interpreting the timeless truths within them in the context of the the lives of the people living in any given age.  Modern biblical scholarship is as advanced and any other academic discipline and has helped to sort that out somewhat.  But the scriptures can't be only understood on a mental and logical level - the heart and soul must enter into it.  And if you believe that God is love and loves everyone, any behavior or policy adopted on biblical principles that doesn't keep this concept first and foremost is most assuredly not from God.  That may be oversimplifying it, but I don't want POE's poor servers to blow up  if this goes on too long. 

Thanks for sharing your views, John.  I'm enjoying visiting with you about this.

I'm sorry for both of your losses, Ruth. Life can be tough.

I'll think about what you've written above and get back to you properly later, because I'm enjoying these exchanges, too.

Hi, Paul. Thanks for reading my Wall story. Nice to meet you.