Your thoughts on prayer

What you said, Sue G.R. , about for some people their faith just IS.  I think they’re the lucky ones.  They don’t overanalyze it, they just know.  It brings a measure of peace, that kind of faith.  The hard part then, is putting it into practice.  If the motivating factor of their faith and their expression of it and the defense of it is anything other than love, then they’re not “walking the talk.”  I think that’s why religion can be such a destructive influence.  I also think that people fear the challenge that a relationship with God means in one’s life.  It means a lot of paradigm shifting and self-examination and sacrifice and leaving our comfy cozy little world.  I believe it’s only prayer and the humility of emptying oneself before God that makes this happen.  At least in my experience.  And yes, Mick, like the person you mentioned, sometimes its only when we’re at the end of our rope that we turn to God.

I really enjoy your posts, Ruth. Keep 'em coming!

Words are slippery things and words like 'soul' and 'spirit' are especially slippery. They often mean different things to different people. But if by those terms you mean some aspect of a human being that survives death and continues to exist - no, I don't believe in that.

I think it becomes clearer every day (as we learn more and more about the amazing structures that we call living creatures) that we are highly complex biological machines, designed by evolution to survive in the conditions that prevail on Earth.

I think the linked (and very ancient) ideas of 'soul' and 'life after death' were both born out of fear. I can say more about that, but I tend to rattle on.

 I once heard it said that we’re not humans having a spiritual experience, but spiritual beings having a human experience.

You're a dualist, I'm a monist. You believe there are two kinds of 'stuff' in the universe - matter and spirit. I believe there's only one kind of 'stuff' - and that's matter/energy (which are aspects of the same thing). I see no evidence at all for some kind of non-material 'spirit'.

I think my capacity for abstract thought, my appreciation of beauty and my ability to play the guitar all have physical roots in my material brain and have nothing to do with any kind of non-physical 'spirit'.

I don't think any part of us goes 'way beyond the biological'. I think we are the products of biology: and at a deeper level we are the products of chemistry. And deeper still, we are the products of physics.

In my opinion, that makes life more beautiful and more wonderful than any kind of religious interpretation.

Same here, Sue.

I do understand that these discussions can get close to things people feel are very precious to them, and feathers can get ruffled.

 I know I said I wouldn’t be drawn into this but as everybody seems so open and able to take on others opinions without prejudice I’ll join in.

 I read all that’s written with great interest but still I find it amazing as to WHY people need a religion. I wouldn’t call myself religious at all yet people who know me tell me I must have a belief because I’m basically a good person and wouldn’t pass the beggar in the street. To me that simply doesn’t add up. I offer the beggar a penny because I want to and for no other reason than that, certainly not because I’m thinking an “all seeing eye” may be looking and taking notes.

 Ruth wrote

 “And yes, Mick, like the person you mentioned, sometimes its only when we’re at the end of our rope that we turn to God”

 My point was that he didn’t turn to God, he told me he turned to prayer, a self inflicted need to want for something, not asking an outside influence to intervene with his dilemma. He was a unique man whom I learnt a lot from, he had a clear open mind and never seemed dogged down by outside influences. All the “religious” people I have known down the years try and “influence” my thoughts and I have never understood why, so why religion? What does it do?

 Each and every one of us is unique, there are as many religions in the world as there are people, we are all responsible for our own actions, a world without religious barriers would be a better world for all of us and our children’s children. I believe the future is the preservation of our environment and we all need to work together from a base we can all agree on. History shows that religion has had little effect on such issues and I think it’s time we should move on and let religion become something to refer to and learn from, not allow it to fog our thoughts or hinder what will be a future of new challenges and demands.

I am really nervous to reply here.  I've tried to read all the replies here and to understand everything said!  I truly appreciate everyone's input.  I've learned a lot! 

But one thing that keeps coming to mind is what Mahatma Gandhi said:

"God has no religion"  

I just wanted to put that out there.   

And Mick...I'm with you on this. 

*gulp*  Now I have to hit "post"  !!