Your thoughts on prayer

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Peter Evans Posts: 3863 Joined: 20th Aug 2006 Location: UK	Posted at 22:23 on 20th August 2008 Oops, catch you later Diana. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
John Ravenscroft Posts: 321 Joined: 21st Sep 2007 Location: UK	Posted at 23:44 on 20th August 2008 On 20th August 2008 21:43, Barbara Shoemaker wrote: I wonder, John, if you had grown up in a Christian home and followed that same faith all your life, might you not now be on the same side of the fence as I? That's possible, Barbara. But I think I'd still have struggled with many of the things about religious belief that simply don't make sense in the light of real-world experience. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Posts: Joined: 1st Jan 1970	editPosted at 23:54 on 20th August 2008 As Ruth has mentioned, John, it is not a religious belief we have, but a spritual one. And each and every one of us lives in this world and so have real-world experience, just like you. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Cathy E. Posts: 8474 Joined: 15th Aug 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 04:59 on 21st August 2008 On 20th August 2008 22:22, Peter Evans wrote: I dont very often get involved in these arguments ie religion. I was thinking of the story of the temptation of Christ. The devil took Jesus up a mountain, and told Jesus that if he followed the Devil,he would give Jesus all that he could see to the far horison. If the earth is Gods domain, how could the Devil give it to Jesus?. Please dont say it is a trick of the Devils. Jesus being Gods son, would know that it belonged to God. So, perhapse this is Hell and God has no say in what happens here. This is just a thaught from a non believer. The devil owns nothing. He lives in outer darkness. He thought he could trick Jesus. (Sorry) The devil is not very smart. That is why he is where he is. He messed up big time! He doesn't want anybody to believe in God so he puts doubts in your mind and makes you question Religion. He tries all the time to get you to enjoy worldly things, (gambling, sex outside of marriage, drugs, revenge, hate, etc.). When you have faith in Christ and God, the devil fights even harder to get you under his spell. Everything worthwhile takes hard work. It is hard to stay faithful but the rewards are worth it! My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
John Ravenscroft Posts: 321 Joined: 21st Sep 2007 Location: UK	Posted at 05:09 on 21st August 2008 On 20th August 2008 21:02, Ruth Gregory wrote: You're all doing a great job here. A very nice dialogue. It would take me the rest of the day to respond to everything, and later I just might do it later, because I love to discuss this too, but suffice it to say, that what people of faith believe is due to faith, nothing more, nothing less. And faith is an act of free will. And yes, it makes no sense, and it can't be proven, apart from effects it has on the life of a believer. Which goes back to the original concept of the thread - the quote by Joyce Rupp - about how prayer changes us. And I can say as an eyewitness to my own life that change wrought by prayer in my life is very real indeed. Ruth, I don't doubt at all that strong beliefs, faith and prayer can have very real effects on the believer. Nor do I doubt that certain religious / spiritual beliefs can be a great comfort - indeed I think that's one of the main reasons such beliefs exist. But personally, I don't think Faith is a reliable guide to the truth - and I want to know what's true, Reason seems to me to be a more reliable truth-digger. As Ruth has mentioned, John, it is not a religious belief we have, but a spritual one. Sue, how would you say a religious belief differs from a spiritual one? My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Cathy E. Posts: 8474 Joined: 15th Aug 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 05:19 on 21st August 2008 Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservations. God wants us to trust him. When he feels we are ready to hear the truth he will reveal all to us. But we must make ourselves worthy first by being obedient to his commandments. Trying to become Christlike. It is not an easy task. If we hold to our faith we can find the strength through the help of the Holy Spirit. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Diana Sinclair Posts: 10119 Joined: 3rd Apr 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 14:03 on 21st August 2008 On 20th August 2008 22:22, Peter Evans wrote: Take care Diana. Catvh you later. I dont very often get involved in these arguments ie religion. I was thinking of the story of the temptation of Christ. The devil took Jesus up a mountain, and told Jesus that if he followed the Devil,he would give Jesus all that he could see to the far horison. If the earth is Gods domain, how could the Devil give it to Jesus?. Please dont say it is a trick of the Devils. Jesus being Gods son, would know that it belonged to God. So, perhapse this is Hell and God has no say in what happens here. This is just a thaught from a non believer. Peter, it's good to hear your opinion my friend. I'll try to explain my understanding of that conundrum. According to Holy Scripture, when (under the influence of Satan) Adam and Eve chose to disobey God they aligned themselves with the evil one and brought ruin and death to all mankind. Humanity wasn't the only ones to suffer for that choice however; scripture tells us that "all of creation" groans under the weight of this oppression. That accounts for the many horrible things we see in the world today, including many so called natural disasters etc. When Satan, in his arrogance, rebelled against God, a war broke out in heaven between Satan, his minions, and Michael the arch angel and his angelic armies. God thus ousted Satan from heaven, forbidding his return. Satan's dominion would be the earth from that point forward; and in fact, scripture calls him the ruler of this world. Though theologians have debated the metaphysics of it for centuries, there appears at that point in time, to have been a rift between heaven and earth. Earth, once a part of heaven was then separated to exist outside of the heavenly realm. So in a nut shell the answer to your question is that though God created the earth to be a part of heaven and intended mankind to live upon it in peace, happiness, health, and eternal life, once mankind rebelled against their creator and the war in heaven took place, earth was no longer the paradise of perfection God created; rather it was now full of sin and corruption, and Satan became it's ruler. God's intent from the beginning has been to redeem mankind and to eventually restore earth to heaven. But in the mean time Satan is still its ruler and what he offered to Christ was a share in his demonic rule. I hope that makes sense, whether you agree with it or not; it's very hard to summarize such a topic! My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Cathy E. Posts: 8474 Joined: 15th Aug 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 14:32 on 21st August 2008 That is a beautiful discription Diana. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Peter Evans Posts: 3863 Joined: 20th Aug 2006 Location: UK	Posted at 14:52 on 21st August 2008 Thank you Diana. So I was right, we are in Hell. Explains a lot of what happens here dont it? My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Sue H Posts: 8172 Joined: 29th Jun 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 14:57 on 21st August 2008 Hell is more of a presence of mind than a place. I am personally in Heaven right now. Wonderful husband, wonderful children, Wonderful friends (you lot included) pretty much good health. Wonderful life all in all. That makes for a Heavenly existence. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions