Your thoughts on prayer

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Cathy E. Posts: 8474 Joined: 15th Aug 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 17:26 on 24th August 2008 Oh John, you poor thing. I am so sorry that you are hurting. By the way, the fall was Satan's doing, the ambulance was God's! LOL! Diana is right. God sent that speedy ambulance your way. Wishing you a speedy recovery. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:00 on 25th August 2008 I haven’t responded to this one in a couple of days, but I’ve read it and needed time to think about what everyone says and take time to collect my thoughts in order to respond. So please bear with me if I get a little long winded here. But this topic is near and dear to my heart. Again thanks to everyone for your heartfelt and sincere thoughts here. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:04 on 25th August 2008 I’ve read thru the postings about Satan and yes, I too, believe that it is a created being, not just the personification of evil, as many believe. But I don’t believe Satan’s responsible for natural disasters or bad things happening to good people. The name Satan is from the Hebrew word meaning “the accuser.” So when you put that spin on it, it becomes quite different. Humans have a fallen nature, but God created us out of love and found all that he created to be “good.” So, we have a life, and free will to be exercised. And, as we have all seen, it could go either way. Thinking of the accuser, that should make us take stock, reflect, and ask, “Where am I at fault here?” Another occasion for prayer. And “the accuser’s really getting to me today” – another occasion for prayer. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:10 on 25th August 2008 On 21st August 2008 16:53, John Ravenscroft wrote: The USA and the UK are very different when it comes to religion Yes, John, I think it’s true about cultural differences in approach to religion, prayer, spirituality, ecumenism, secularism, etc. But I think there are as many atheists over here as there are believers over there. But it’s probably not a good thing to pigeon hole all of us on either side of the pond. The church in America is an offshoot of the church in Europe, surely, but is not quite as weighed down by the ugly history. There are denominational differences, but I think people of faith are now allowing themselves to be challenged by Jesus and in turn, are challenging their own churches if the message being preached is contrary to the gospel. This, I truly believe, is the result of heartfelt prayer, both personal and in community, with humility and submission to guidance from God. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:26 on 25th August 2008 On 21st August 2008 16:53, John Ravenscroft wrote: Catherine, the phrase 'trust without reservations' is lovely - but really it's just a rewording (in far more attractive language) of 'belief without proof'. I can't disagree with you on this one, John. And I guess it's a very realistic definition of faith. But believers have accepted that it's OK to believe in something that can't be proven. I remember, as a small girl, being fascinated with the thought of atoms and molecules and how infintessimally tiny they were. But I've never seen one and so have no proof that they truly are the stuff that matter is made of. But that doesn't stop me from believing and having faith that there are atoms and molecules. It's kind of a simplistic analogy, but I'm OK with belief without proof. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:33 on 25th August 2008 On 21st August 2008 19:45, Sue H wrote: I believe We were sent to this earth to learn and grow, through good times and bad. We were given free agency to choose between good and evil. If God were to intercede every time something bad was about to happen, where would be the growth? If we lived without pain, weakness, sorrow, disaster etc, what would life on earth be like? I'd say pretty boring and with not much point to it. Besides that, if there were no opposites, good/bad pain/health, happy/sad then we would not even recognise what our existence was. You can't know good if you've never experienced bad. When people commit crimes, the Lord could stop them, but then those people would have been denied their free agency. Also our time here on earth is just a droplet in the ocean compared to eternity. A short span of time to prove ourselves. Oh dear, I don't express myself as eloquently as others here, sorry. Sue, you express yourself beautifully and I agree with everything you say. Believers and non-believers alike will testify to the growth they have experienced thru hardship. We ask “why” all the time – why is this good person ill with cancer, why did my son and John’s sister die in car crashes? Why did the plane crash in Spain? Why do we keep asking “why?” when there is no answer? I think you said a few pages back, John, that people need reasons for things that happen. I wouldn’t even hazard a guess about the mind of God, but I think he created the universe to unfold as it will. And when He intervenes, it is always for the good, not intervention out of evil or vindictiveness. It would have been nice if he had created us a bunch of little automatons in a perfect paradise. But in His wisdom, he gave us free will. And the lessons? I suppose a very simple minded analogy would be like a parent helping a child with homework. It would be so much easier to just do the homework for the child. But no learning would take place. And some of our most profound lessons are born of suffering. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 01:49 on 25th August 2008 On 24th August 2008 11:45, Alan Marron wrote: It seems to me that sometimes the opposite of love is apathy. That may strike you as a wierd point of view, but if you think about it, love is really about caring so much, it hurts, whereas apathy is modern day society's 'don't give a damn syndrome'. There again, you'd be very unwise to take my word for it, I haven't prayed as often as I should since my wife died, so I should probably be the last to voice an opinion! Alan, from the few words you’ve added to this thread, I can see you are a person of faith, despite how little you think you have. Don’t say you should be the last to voice an opinion. Your thoughts are as important as anyone else's here. I don’t believe that God’s so much concerned about how much we pray or how many prayers we say, or whether or not we go to church. Quality, not quantity. And you know what I believe is the most profound and heartfelt prayer there is? “God help me.” Three little words that can be uttered from the depths of sorrow or the heights of ecstasy and everything in between. And yes, I’d never thought of indifference like that, but it is contrary to love in the way you explained it "love is really about caring so much, it hurts." Well said, Alan! And yes, Denzil is a good shepherd. LOL! My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 02:01 on 25th August 2008 On 24th August 2008 11:23, John Ravenscroft wrote: OK, which one of you lot has been telling God about me? I need sympathy! John!!! So now you believe in God, huh? LOL. Just kidding of course. If you need sympathy, you have mine, and if you don’t mind, my prayers too. I hope you recover quickly. I’ve looked at your You Tube page and it’s lovely. You are very talented, John, and I’m looking forward to more videos. Here’s some long distance love for you. XOXO. And I love Little Feat, BTW. Now to the question, did God decide to give that atheist guy a good zap? LOL. The answer is, of course unequivocally, NO. And anyone who believes otherwise has a very immature understanding of God. There was an email going around a few years ago that talked about famous people who thumbed their noses at God and died tragic and untimely deaths. My answer to that was what about those who died tragic and untimely deaths because they refused to thumb their noses at God? That’s the us vs. them mentality creeping in, and if anything, that’s what Satan delights in most. Our command from Jesus is to see God in others and “love one another as I have loved you.” Probably the hardest thing we will ever do. And when I find it impossible to do, that’s where prayer simply has to take over in my life. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Cathy E. Posts: 8474 Joined: 15th Aug 2008 Location: USA	Posted at 02:02 on 25th August 2008 On 25th August 2008 01:33, Ruth Gregory wrote: On 21st August 2008 19:45, Sue H wrote: I believe We were sent to this earth to learn and grow, through good times and bad. We were given free agency to choose between good and evil. If God were to intercede every time something bad was about to happen, where would be the growth? If we lived without pain, weakness, sorrow, disaster etc, what would life on earth be like? I'd say pretty boring and with not much point to it. Besides that, if there were no opposites, good/bad pain/health, happy/sad then we would not even recognise what our existence was. You can't know good if you've never experienced bad. When people commit crimes, the Lord could stop them, but then those people would have been denied their free agency. Also our time here on earth is just a droplet in the ocean compared to eternity. A short span of time to prove ourselves. Oh dear, I don't express myself as eloquently as others here, sorry. Sue, you express yourself beautifully and I agree with everything you say. Believers and non-believers alike will testify to the growth they have experienced thru hardship. We ask “why” all the time – why is this good person ill with cancer, why did my son and John’s sister die in car crashes? Why did the plane crash in Spain? Why do we keep asking “why?” when there is no answer? I think you said a few pages back, John, that people need reasons for things that happen. I wouldn’t even hazard a guess about the mind of God, but I think he created the universe to unfold as it will. And when He intervenes, it is always for the good, not intervention out of evil or vindictiveness. It would have been nice if he had created us a bunch of little automatons in a perfect paradise. But in His wisdom, he gave us free will. And the lessons? I suppose a very simple minded analogy would be like a parent helping a child with homework. It would be so much easier to just do the homework for the child. But no learning would take place. And some of our most profound lessons are born of suffering. Well put Ruth. We learn from our mistakes as we do from our suffering. Suffering can make us stronger if we look for the lesson we are to learn. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions
Ruth Gregory Posts: 8072 Joined: 25th Jul 2007 Location: USA	Posted at 02:26 on 25th August 2008 Hi Catherine: Sometimes it's impossible to discern what we're supposed to learn from events in our lives because of being in the middle of the storm, so to speak. That's where, when we pray to have our eyes opened to it, a fellow human being will come along side and be able to see from the outside in, and help us with that discernment. That's often the way God shows up when we call on him. My favourite: Pictures \| Towns \| Attractions